Senate Estimates: 02 June, 2008
STANDING COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE: Discussion
Senator ALLISON—I wonder if I could ask about Western Sahara. Does the new government have a different position on Western Sahara, and Morocco’s status as an occupying country?
Ms Stokes— (FIRST ASSISTANT SECRETARY, South and West Asia, Middle East and Africa Division) I am terribly sorry, Senator; could I ask you to repeat the question.
Senator ALLISON—I was just wondering whether there was any shift at all in attitudes to Western Sahara and in particular the peace plan and the requirement under it and under the UN for there to be a referendum on the sovereignty of Western Sahara. The question really was whether the new government has a different position on Western Sahara than the previous one.
Ms Stokes—I am not aware of any change in policy. As you know, the Australian government strongly support UN processes, and my understanding is that they support the UN’s approach to Western Sahara.
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Senator ALLISON—The UN, as I understand it, condemned the sale of superphosphate from Western Sahara—which of course Morocco takes the revenue from—to countries like Australia and New Zealand and elsewhere. There have been calls for a trade embargo on Morocco, which might be about fertiliser. Has that come up in talks so far?
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Ms Stokes—I certainly can say that, with respect to the UN’s approach to this matter, there was a legal commentary by a UN Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs, the legal counsel Hans Corell, on 29 January 2002, concerning commercial activities involving the exploitation of resources of the Western Sahara. That opinion is not a legally binding opinion and it does not set out measures that need to be taken by states regarding imports from Western Sahara. There are no UN Security Council sanctions or Australian bilateral sanctions prohibiting imports from Western Sahara or Morocco. When we talk to companies who might be interested in this topic, we do not provide them with DFAT’s legal advice; we strongly recommend that they seek their own legal advice about any business that they may wish to conduct with Western Sahara.
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Senator ALLISON—But they say they are not willing to cease trading in phosphate from Western Sahara unless there is some sort of government direction on the issue.
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Ms Stokes—Is that a question or a statement?
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Senator ALLISON—What do you say to the fact that the superphosphate industry is looking for government action before they will cease this trade?
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Ms Stokes—I cannot say we have spoken to every company that imports phosphate from Western Sahara, but I am aware of conversation with at least one company, and we always say that they should get legal advice. We draw their attention to the Hans Corell opinion and we strongly recommend they get legal advice. Our understanding is, in the case of one company that I am aware of, that they certainly have done that.
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Senator ALLISON—So the government is not prepared to step in on this issue. Is that what you are saying?
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Ms Stokes—Based on what I understand today, there are no UN Security Council sanctions and there are certainly no Australian bilateral measures on Western Sahara.
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Senator ALLISON—How has Australia voted in the UN on these issues when Western Sahara’s resources have come up for discussion?
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Ms Stokes—I will probably have to take that on notice. I know that our approach in the UN will be guided by supporting the UN’s approach on the whole issue of Western Sahara.
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Senator ALLISON—There are other countries who have taken this action, as I understand it. Norway is perhaps one country that has imposed a trade embargo. Can you confirm that?
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Ms Stokes—I will seek to confirm that.
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Senator ALLISON—Is it your understanding that international law, generally speaking, provides for resources to belong to the people of a country, not the occupying country? Do you understand that to be a basic principle?
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Ms Stokes—That is certainly something that is not in my area of responsibility. Perhaps colleagues from our legal division might want to deal with that question, or we could take it on notice.
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Senator ALLISON—To what extent do you think that the ability to freely trade the resources—and I think there is fishing, uranium, wind and all sorts of resources on the western coast of Africa in Western Sahara—allows Morocco to consistently, for 15 years or so, not go down the path of a referendum? In other words, should Australia, along with other countries, be more outspoken on this issue in order to press Morocco to comply with the requirements of the peace plan?
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Ms Stokes—Certainly our approach is to encourage both parties to follow UN recommendations. That is certainly the approach—
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Senator ALLISON—But given the vast resources in Western Sahara, isn’t that an opportunity to get some leverage over Morocco? It is in Morocco’s interest to keep spinning this out for decade after decade. Surely this is an opportunity to put pressure on Morocco.
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Ms Stokes—I do not know that the government sees it quite that way. We continue to support the UN’s approach to this issue. It is a vexed issue; there is no doubt about that. We strongly support the UN’s approach to finding a resolution to these issues.
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Senator ALLISON—Does Mr McCarthy have something to say?
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Mr McCarthy (Assistant Secretary)—With respect to your statement, the question is sovereignty. That is the very matter that is in dispute in this particular instance. So I would not have any problems with the statement per se, but it is precisely sovereignty—and the sovereignty over the land in question—that lies at the centre of this whole issue.
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Senator ALLISON—Correct. And what is Australia’s position on the sovereignty of Western Sahara?
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Ms Stokes—We do not have a position on that precise question that I am aware of. There is clearly a difference of view between the countries involved and some other players, and there has been a very close UN interest in trying to promote a resolution of the issues. We strongly support those UN efforts.
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Senator ALLISON—Minister, I have been at rallies and meetings on Western Sahara with a number of your colleagues in the past. Has this issue come up in talks in caucus? Are you seeing any likelihood of a shift in attitude by your government?
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Senator Faulkner—Say that again, please.
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Senator ALLISON—I have shared many a platform with colleagues of yours on this issue and I think that there was some hope—at least in Western Sahara—that a new government might herald a slightly different position on Western Sahara from the previous government. Have you had talks with your colleagues on this issue and is there likely to be a change?
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Senator Faulkner—I personally have not had talks with my colleagues. As you appreciate, it is Mr Smith who has the day-to-day responsibility for enunciating the government’s position on this issue.
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Senator ALLISON—So it has not yet come up in caucus?
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Senator Faulkner—I do not normally talk at committees like this about what has or has not come up in caucus. I am not sure that that is particularly relevant to the work of this particular committee. What is relevant is what Mr Smith has said on behalf of the government and which has been outlined to you by officials.
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Senator ALLISON—I guess this is more a question for AusAID, but is there any progress on providing assistance to the 160,000 refugees outside Western Sahara in camps now for 20 years? Is that a matter that the department has considered in recent times?
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Ms Stokes—I will need to take that on notice. I am not aware of any humanitarian assistance that specifically has gone to those people, but it may well have. I will just need to check that.
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Senator Faulkner—If it would assist, I am more than happy to take your question on notice relating to Western Sahara and ask Mr Smith to give consideration to it.
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Senator ALLISON—I would be grateful if you did that, Minister.
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Senator Faulkner—I think it is certainly more appropriate for him to give a considered response on this than for the minister representing to, as they say in cricketing parlance, slash outside the off stump, which I do not intend to do on that issue. But I am more than happy to raise it with Mr Smith, who I know would be keen to give you a considered response.
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